WHAT DOES A CYBERSECURITY HIRING MANAGER REALLY WANT FROM YOU ON DAY 1?

Kip Boyle:
Hi, welcome to Your Cyber Path. I’m Kip Boyle, I’m here with my co-host, Jason Dion. Hi Jason.

Jason Dion:
Hey Kip. Nice to see you again.

Kip Boyle:
Yeah, it’s good to see you too. And in case anybody’s watching the video version of this, you can see that Jason’s been getting lots of sun lately, enjoying the outside world, but probably needs to remember his sunblock.

Jason Dion:
Yeah, I tend to always forget to wear a hat when I’m supposed to. And then about halfway through the day, I’m like, “I really should have gotten a hat.” My family likes to make fun of me because if we go to Disney or Universal or one of the theme parks or something like that, about halfway through the day, I always remember that I forgot to bring a hat and so I end up buying a hat. And so I have this entire collection of hats at home, because I always forget to buy a hat or to bring a hat. So I end up buying a hat and then I never wear it again because I forget the hat. And so at home, I have this big pile of hats. It’s bad, bad thing that I need to get myself over.

Kip Boyle:
But you said you had a really great time, you were you’re out there with your son and in the sun. So good for you. Really, really good for you.

So listen, so today we’re going to talk about something that I think is going to be really important for our listeners and that’s what does a cybersecurity hiring manager really want from you, starting on day one? We spend so much time talking about getting the job, which we should, but we rarely talk about, okay, what happens once you report for work. How can you be successful on day one? And then I think the first 90 days is crucial, don’t you?

Jason Dion:
Oh yeah. I mean it really comes down to making that good first impression. When I used to be a college professor, I used to talk with my students all the time about, that first week of class, you really need to kind of stake your claim and show the professor who you are, because it really goes a long way through the rest of the semester. And I think a lot of that happens on the job as well. And what I mean by that is, a lot of students, you come in on the first week, if you create an amazingly great paper for your first assignment, the instructor in their mind starts associating. “Okay, Kip is a really good writer. Kip is the guy who’s always going to give me a good product.” And so when I get Kip’s second and third and fourth product, I’m going to not read it nearly as closely because he already has that impression in my mind of, “oh, I know that Kip guy, he does a great job.”

Whereas if I look at somebody else’s paper who did really bad in the first time, it’s hard to recover because of that initial bad impression. Because now as an instructor, I’m looking really closely for any mistakes you may make, because I think you’re a bad person. And it’s the same thing in a job. If you have a bad first week or first two weeks, it’s really hard to recover from that. And so you want to make that good first impression and set it up in people’s minds that you’re a good person, you’re a good, hard worker, you’re here to deliver results. And that goes a long way for the rest of your career there.

Kip Boyle:
Yeah. Sometimes I call this, I’ve heard other people call it too, the halo effect. You show up and you just kind of get that, “wow, what a great person. Jason has just hit the ground running and super helpful, super engaged.” And so that becomes the dominant view of you. And then when you act in a way that’s contrary to that people figure, “well, that’s just an exception. That’s just not how Jason normally is. So we’ll give him a pass today because everybody has bad days. He’s probably just having a bad day.” And so they don’t have any problem with you.

And so really what this gets back to, which we do talk a lot about, which is the people skills. That it’s not all about how do you twiddle the bits on the firewall? That’s such a minor part of the job, even though when we go through education it seems like that’s all there is to it, but really that’s not. So why don’t we dive in a little bit and unpack this topic of, what should you be really focused on day one? It’s one thing for us to say, “make a good impression.” Okay. Well, but what does that mean? What does it mean to set a good impression? So I’ll go first.

I think when somebody shows up to work with me and my team I’ve selected you. I’ve hand selected you and I’m sure you can do the job. So you’ve got to have that in your mind. So when you show up, I want you to be professional in every way that you can. Don’t be stiff, but just definitely be professional. Show me your professionalism by dressing appropriately, by interacting with other people in a helpful way, with politeness and courtesy. I don’t necessarily need you to say yes sir, no sir, yes ma’am, no ma’am. You got to really look at the environment. I mean, if you’re in the military, if you’re working with uniformed military personnel, then maybe that would be okay. But in the private sector, on my team, if you were to join my team, that would come off as being a little too stiff. So I wouldn’t want you to do that.

And then of course, technical ability. Don’t be afraid to demonstrate what your technical capabilities are right from the beginning. So I don’t know, that’s what I’m thinking about in terms of professionalism. Jason, what do you think about? What’s professionalism for you on day one?

Jason Dion:
Yeah, I think professionalism on day one is making sure A, you’re there on time. I’ve seen people show up late on their first day of work, that’s not a good impression. Because that may go over when you’re there for a couple of months because you may have flexible work hours, but on day one, people are there to meet you and take you and walk you around and get you into HR and get your badges and get your accounts and all that stuff. And usually in a large organization like I’ve been working in the past, it really does take a couple of days before you’re ever actually doing any real work, because that first couple of days is just a lot of paperwork and onboarding and going through the HR classes to say, “don’t sexually harass your coworkers,” and stuff like that.

And all of those things that just take up a lot of time. So make sure you’re on time, you know what you need to get done, and you’re delivering on those things, whatever those are. If they asked you to bring in a copy of your birth certificate or your passport or whatever it was for identification, don’t forget those things. Make a list and make sure you’re there. I think uniform, the way you dress. Your civilian uniform, making sure that’s appropriate. You don’t want to go in with a suit and tie if that organization is a t-shirt and jeans kind of place. My company, we are a t-shirt and jeans kind of place, so if you walked in with a suit and tie, you’d be a little bit out of place there and everybody would be kind of looking at you like, “what are you doing?”

Whereas some other places I’ve been at, they were a blazer place. Every guy was wearing a shirt, no tie, but they would have a sports jacket on. And so if you walked in with a shirt or t-shirt and jeans, you’d look out of place in that environment. So you got to make sure you understand that. And hopefully you’re going to get a feeling for that when you’ve gone in and done your interviews, of what does normal look like in that organization.

Kip Boyle:
And if you didn’t get a sufficiently good sense from that experience, cause sometimes you don’t, ask. Oh my gosh, just ask. Just thank them for bringing you on the team. Because they’re going to reach out to you and they’re going to say, “Hey, we want you to join the team. Here’s the offer.” You’re going to do the negotiations, but then ask. Just say, “okay, look, I accept. This is wonderful. I have a few questions. One thing I’d like to know is what’s the dress code for where I’m going to be,” and gosh, there’s just no shame in asking that, quite the opposite. When a candidate, a new person asks me something like, “what is the dress code?” I think, “oh my gosh, this person’s already thinking about day one and is really putting an emphasis on fitting in, and they’re already thinking about being on the team.” So I actually think that’s a really strong signal from a new person that they want to do well. That’s professionalism for sure. Yeah. Any other words on professionalism?

Jason Dion:
Yeah. You’d mentioned technical ability and one of the things for me in professionalism is I don’t expect you to know everything 100%, but I do expect you to know where to look and to be self-sufficient in finding those answers. After all, the reason I hired you to bring you on my team is to take work off my plate. Is to get things done. And so if you’re coming back to me as the boss, every five minutes asking another question, that to me, it starts putting the things like I start asking myself, “why did I hire this person? They’re creating more work for me.” And you may be a great employee in two weeks once I answer all those questions, but I hired you because I’m busy and I need you to take on that load.

And so if you don’t know the answer immediately, you want to be able to ask other coworkers or preferably, look it up on Google, figure it out yourself of what you need to do. There’s some things you’re going to have to ask coworkers like, “how does this organization set up its active directory structure?” You can go into Google and figure out how to set up an active directory structure, but not how this organization does it. And so figuring out those technical things, you’re going to have to ask some coworkers. But in general, you want to be able to solve as many problems as you can yourself, because that’s why they hired you, is they want you to take on work and release their workload.

Kip Boyle:
You know, I’m going to say something else about that, which is this. When a new person, and I just went through this because I just had two new people join my organization in the last two months, and this one fellow that joined just, I don’t know how he knows how to do this, but he just has this sense about when to ask me. And I kept thinking like, “how does he know this?”

And I figured it out. So what’s happening is that he’s doing exactly what we’re talking about when I say, “Hey, can you please take care of this for me?” And he’ll be like, “okay,” he’ll go figure out how to do it. But then before he pulls the trigger, he comes back and he shares like a screenshot with me or whatever. And he says, “is this what you’re looking for? I just want to get a thumbs up from you before I pull the trigger and commit this thing.” And that to me feels great because they’re showing me something to make sure that we’re on the same page without asking me all the little nitty gritty details about how to get to that point. And that just really increases my confidence that this person is self-sufficient, but does understand that they’re new and it’s okay to just get somebody to double check what they’re doing. So I do like that.

Jason Dion:
Yeah. I completely agree. We were talking right before we started hitting record on this episode, we’ve been growing really fast at Dion training. I just had employee number 14 join my team last Monday, employee number 15 is joining this Monday. Employee 16 is joining the following Monday. So we have three people coming on board in this three week period and we’re hiring about six more over the next two months, because we’ve just been going through this rapid expansion. And the one who came on last week, he’s a developer he’s part of our new web development team, cause we’re building our own learning management system from scratch. And the discussion we had was, he’s like, “Hey, I have all these ideas of what we can do. Are you okay with me just going off and doing it?” I said, “yeah that’s fine, but if you need some guidance, I’m totally good with that too.”

And so what he’s done is he says, “Hey, I have this idea. Here’s what I’m going to program, here’s so many hours I think it’s going to take, do you think there’s value in doing that from the business side?” Because he’s like, “I can code anything you want, but is it going to give you business value? And is it worth me, if it’s going to take me 40 hours of my time, that’s one week of development. Is that worth it to you as the business owner to have that feature added to your LMS? Or would you rather me do these other three features that would take that same 40 hours?” So those kind of decisions I think are fine, especially even in the cyber security world, there’s always this limit of time until you start saying, “I can do this for you or I can do these things for you, which would you prefer? Which gives you more value? Because I don’t understand your business yet.”

Now six months from now, he’s going to know our business a lot better after working here and he’ll be able to make those decisions on his own. But today he’s brand new to the team and so he needs some guidance on what is that business value that we strive for in our organization, the unique ways that we work, versus the way other companies he’s worked for have worked in the past.

Kip Boyle:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, let’s move on to something else. We talked about professionalism, what that looks like. Well along the way of talking about professional, we’ve talked about the second item, which is people skills and your ability to bond with your teammates. Look, this is a team focused world, cybersecurity generally is, unless you’re the only person at your organization. And even still, I would say don’t be an army of one. You’re never going to get all the things that you need to get done by going it alone. So whether you are part of a team that all reports to the same person or whether you are somebody who is a team of one as far as the org chart is concerned, don’t act that way.

You’re going to want to connect with people. You are going to want to show that you’re a team player. So I expect you to be friendly and I expect you to find your place on the team. Now what I’ve noticed about cybersecurity people, especially very, very technical ones, is this can be a real problem for them. And for different reasons. But really what a lot of it comes down to is they would just prefer to work with the technology rather than work with the people. And I do understand that, but you cannot be so obsessed with the technology that you’re an asshole. Can I just say that?

Jason Dion:
Yeah.

Kip Boyle:
I mean, this is not a podcast for children, so I think we’re okay. I mean, I don’t think we should turn a blue streak here, but there’s a whole book and a whole movement out in the world, around this book called “The No Asshole Rule.” Well, my gosh, that sure does apply. Because if you are rude to people on my team, I’m going to call you out on it. If you are rude to our customers, our other internal customers, and somebody comes back to me and says, “Hey, your guy just crapped all over my dude for no good reason and kept us from getting what we needed to get done today.” I’m going to call you out on that as well. And no matter how great you are, technically speaking, no matter how much of a wizard you are with the keyboard, I will let you go. I will get you off the team, because that is such disruptive behavior. Don’t you think so, Jason?

Jason Dion:
Yeah. I know I’ve talked to you about this, but I’m not sure if I’ve talked about this on the podcast before, so I’ll say it again if I did. I had a person on one of my teams about 10 years ago, that was crapping all over the customers. And we were working in information security and I also ran the help desk. So people had problems with their computers or some kind of security issue, we’ve got them help fix it. And this woman, she was just a jerk to be quite honest. She was mean, she was nasty. She was great at her job, but she just had no people skills. And it got to the point where our customers, we were getting more complaints about her, and so it became more of a problem than she was solving.

And it ended up being where they basically said, “Hey, you no longer have a job here. You’re gone.” And we were actually overseas, I was working in the Middle East at the time. I had about 150 people working for me, and I was getting a huge amount of calls about this particular employee. And so we ended up getting rid of that particular employee and she had to pick up and move her entire family back to the states, because she was only in that country because of this job. And it was a huge thing. And we went through this whole thing, trying to remediate with her, but she just wouldn’t change, and she just could not get along with people. And so no matter how good you are at your job, if you’re a jerk, no one’s going to want to work with you. And in this case it cost her her job, and she had to move her entire family, uproot across the other side of the world because she couldn’t interact nicely with people. So you want to make you’re interacting nicely.

Kip Boyle:
That’s awful. So I want to talk for a moment about why people sometimes struggle to treat other people with respect. Now there’s probably more reasons than I could possibly recount in the time that we have here. But I want to focus on two. And I think one of them is, people seem to come in a lot of times with this very I’m smarter than you kind of attitude, and they have contempt for other people. And the contempt shows up by comments, little snide comments, like what a dipshit or what a jerk or whatever. Just this whole idea that everybody that they have to deal with is somehow not as smart as them. So there’s this real arrogance. And so if you think that you might be guilty of this, just ask yourself this following question. If everybody around you is an idiot, everyone, stop for a second.

Jason Dion:
It may be you and not them. Yeah.

Kip Boyle:
Maybe it’s you and not them. Exactly. That was the point. Okay so that’s one thing. Now, the other thing I wanted to say is that, and I’m going to speak from experience here for myself. It turns out that I’ve had quite a bit of social anxiety over the course of my life. And at first I didn’t know what it was, I didn’t have enough self-awareness to realize what was going on, but eventually I did. And I’ve taken steps to deal with that, including counseling and medication. So I’m admitting that here, because I know that social anxiety is a big deal. I know a lot of people suffer from it, but they don’t all understand what it is and there’s a stigma about getting help. So I don’t want that for you. If you are a person who feels uncomfortable around people, has a hard time being around people, you might have some kind of social anxiety and I want to encourage you to check that out. Have you seen social anxiety, Jason, in people that you’ve worked with?

Jason Dion:
Oh yeah, yeah. Big time. I mean, especially when you start dealing with more of the technical side of this business, you sometimes get a lot of people who they got into this because their personality is they don’t want to interact with other people. They’re comfortable being alone, in the basement, in the dark room, by themselves, doing their own thing. And so I think our industry just tends to attract some of those people, but just like every other industry, there is this importance of social skills and dynamics, because that’s really kind of where you quote, make your money inside your profession and where you’re going to get those promotions is because you’re getting along with people. They can’t see this team without you.

I know we’ve talked about this before, during the pandemic. One of the things that a lot of people, they went home and everybody was starting to work remotely, which some people thought this was the worst thing ever because they don’t like being home alone, they want to be able to have people to talk to. And other people thought this is the greatest thing ever. I’m getting so much work done. No one’s bothering me. I can just put my head down and get the work done I need to get done. And that’s just a personality thing of how you’re wired and how you want to work.

And as people are starting to go back to the office through this pandemic, now a lot of companies are bringing people back. You have to think to yourself, “if I stay home and I work remotely the whole time and people don’t see me, I’m out of sight out of mind.” That’s great, you might be the most productive person ever. But you’re not going to get the promotions because no one’s going to be thinking about you when it comes time for promotions, because you’re kind of out of sight out of mind.

So there is this whole people dynamic, going back to what we’re talking about here, which is what do you do in your first 90 days? You need to become a part of that team. You need to make those inroads. You need people to understand who you are, not so you’re annoying, but so that you’re part of this team and they start bringing you into these things. The other thing when you think about remote work, and if you are getting on a new job as a remote position, you kind of have to go out of your way to make this soft skill community building happen. Because you’re not just going to run into them at the break room while you’re grabbing a coffee, where you could in a normal building, in an office setting.

I’ll use the example of the new person just joined my team. One of the things he did was he got the whole development team, when they’re working, they set up a Zoom link so they can actually share, and anybody who’s working at that time can jump on. And they’re not doing it for a meeting per se, they’re just doing it so they have an open line of communication and they’re sharing their screen going, “Hey, here’s what I’m working on. I’m getting stuck here.” Or as they’re just coding, somebody else can watch over their shoulder, almost like pair coding, pair programming, to see if they’re catching any bugs.

But it’s also building up that comradery between the team members. And it really, the person who just joined last week, he’s already like, “man, that guy is like leaps and bounds ahead of other people,” because he’s communicating, he’s personable, he’s sharing his insights. He’s really kind of taking a leadership position in this team, and that’s not what we hired him for, but that’s just his personality. And so he’s made a great first impression in the week he’s been here.

Kip Boyle:
Yeah. So I’ll just say one more thing about this. If you are a person who does prefer to work as little as possible with people, and you’re not suffering from social anxiety or anything like that. Well, here’s my suggestion for you be sure that you get a job where that is built into your job. So get a job where the expectation is that you’re going to sit in front of your computer monitor 80, 90% of the day, and that people are not going to be walking up to you and trying to engage you in conversation. Like actually structure your day around your tasks with the understanding, the full understanding of everybody, that your job is to be heads down and just make it part of the assumption of the way you work. Don’t make the mistake of taking a job that just doesn’t fit your work preference, that is just a recipe for disaster.

It’s not going to work. You won’t be able to do it over the long haul. You will wake up in the morning and you’ll be like, “I hate this job. I can’t stand doing it because I got to talk to people too much.” And you’re just going to make yourself and everybody else miserable. So please be careful about that. And we’re going to talk in a future episode about how to find out what your work preferences are in case you don’t already know. So, that’s coming up, but not today.

Okay. Last thing we wanted to talk about as far as how to be successful on day one is your ability to solve problems right away. This is an ongoing issue and it’s one of the reasons why the whole idea of entry level jobs for cybersecurity is so dang weird. People, when they hear entry level job they think, “oh, I don’t have to have any skills. I’ll show up and I’ll get trained.” And that really isn’t the case in most places, particularly in the private sector, in DOD and in the military and in the civilian service, I think there are way more opportunities to show up and be kind of entry level, but it’s this need to have you be able to solve problems from day one that really is the fence that you’ve got to get over.

And so that means you’ve got to be comfortable taking risk and possibly failing when you’re going to try something new. Which is to say, you know how to solve the problem you’ve just never done it in this context. So don’t be afraid to fail. I don’t think failure is a sign of weakness. Jason, what do you think about failure and being comfortable taking risks?

Jason Dion:
Yeah. I actually encourage my team a lot that they should be seeking out places where we can do risk and possibly fail, and that’s fine. We’re going to fail, we’re going to fail forward. So when we make a mistake, we’re learning from that. And I don’t care if you make a mistake, but let’s just not make the same one over and over again. Let’s make it once and then fix it and then keep moving forward. The other thing is that a lot of things that you do, if you don’t ever have failure, you’re obviously not pushing yourself hard enough, is the way I kind of look at things. If we’re doing everything safely, we’re never pushing it to the envelope and we could have gotten a lot more out of you and out of the company if we had been trying harder.

When I work with my development team especially, we talk a lot about failure and I’m okay with there being bugs, I’m okay with there being failure. We’re going to find them, we’re going to work our way through it. And the big thing is if we’re going to fail, we want to put it into an environment where we can fail safely. So as we’re trying out something new, we’re not going to do that on our production server. We’ll do that in our development environment, and then we’ll put it in our staging environment, and then we’ll move to the production environment. And by then we fixed 90, 95% of the problems. And yeah, there’s still bugs that make it to production and we find those and we fix those after.

But having that mentality of I’m going to try something and if I fail, that’s okay, I’ll pick myself up and I’ll move forward. That’s where you learn most of the things that you’re going to learn on the job that you can’t learn from a textbook, because that’s where you find those new and innovative ways of doing things. And I have some people on my team who are very risk averse and they don’t want to fail. And so they’re limited in what they can produce and what they can achieve because of that afraid of failing and afraid of going over the line. So it’s those kind of things that you sometimes just got to try something new because you’ll get better results.

Kip Boyle:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s true. The problem is that a lot of people have been shamed by others or taunted by others for failing. And I think it’s kind of a norm in American culture anyway, perhaps in other cultures failure isn’t seen as quite as a stigma. But man, it’s just thick. And some people just love to see you fail. And so kind of the environment that you’re in can be really tough in terms of feeling safe to fail. I think it’s the responsibility of the hiring manager and the supervisor to create an environment where failure is okay and is encouraged, because here’s the thing, you will never learn a better lesson from anyone or any situation more than you’ll learn from failure. Failure is the absolute best teacher, you just want to make sure that the tuition payments aren’t awful.

Jason Dion:
Yeah. I was listening to a podcast yesterday and they brought up a quote and I can’t remember the company. It was a quote from some major Fortune 500 company. And it said, “oh, that guy just cost you $650,000 with his mistake. Are you going to fire him?” He goes, “no, I just paid $650,000 to teach him what not to do. Why would I fire him now?”

Kip Boyle:
He’s more valuable than he was before.

Jason Dion:
Yeah. So I don’t know if I’d go that far, I don’t want somebody losing me $650,000. But yeah, I mean when it comes to it, failure is okay. Especially, I’m a very big believer in lean and agile methodologies, especially when it comes to development. I would rather us get something out there that may have some bugs as opposed to over-engineering this thing for every possible contingency and it takes us a year to get something out there. And so by being able to do that, we can get a lot more done a lot faster, and get a lot better results. And when we make mistakes and we fail, we learn from those, we correct them, and we keep moving forward. And even if I had to make three mistakes, it’s going to take less time than building this thing out a hundred percent from the beginning. So it’s okay in those environments.

Now, if you’re working on building nuclear reactor control panels, don’t do this. You’re building airplanes, don’t do this. But the things I’m doing, it’s not life or death. It’s a learning management system. It’s an exam test prep engine. It’s some videos in a course or something like that. So you have to figure out where that line is based on your organization.

And I think you hit it right. The managers and the supervisors in your area, it’s going to depend on what their philosophy is too. If you’re in an organization where there is this zero defect mentality, then even having failures is probably a bad thing and it may cost you your job. But what I’ve seen is a lot of places are a little more open. Most failures are not the critical death blow. It’s a stumbling walk. You hit your toe, you fix yourself, you keep moving on. And if you have it with that attitude where you’re learning stuff, and you’re going to make sure that you don’t make the same mistakes over and over again, most people are not going to hold that against you. Now, if you’re making the same mistake over and over again, then we’re like, “wow. This person just doesn’t learn.”

Kip Boyle:
Yeah, that’s right.

Jason Dion:
They’re no good. Get out. But that’s different than… That’s true failure not just a failure during learning.

Kip Boyle:
Right. One final thought on this and then I think we can wrap up the episode. So Google when it first formed, they said, “Hey, we’re a bunch of engineers. We don’t like managers. We’re not going to have any managers. We’re going to create this utopian organization where there are no managers and engineers are smart. They’ll just always know what to do.” Well, guess what? That didn’t work out for them. So they said, “okay, well if we have to have managers, we’re going to figure out what’s the right way to have a manager.” In other words, what’s the number one thing that a manager can do in order to empower engineers?

So they went and did this massive study as you could expect, Google threw all these resources at it and just gathered all this data and just analyzed it to death. And the number one thing that they figured out, and I believe this is true, about what makes a successful manager is something called psychological safety, which is exactly what we’ve been talking about, which is that the engineers feel comfortable and free to make mistakes, to speak up, to share their thoughts, and not have to worry that they’re going to get judged or reprimanded because they said some uncomfortable truth or they made a mistake.

So if you are a hiring manager or a supervisor, or if you want to be one, one day, I want you to think about that. I want you to think about psychological safety and the freedom to fail, because it’s going to make a huge difference in the performance of your team.

So, all right, I’m going to take the last word on that. Now let me just recap before we close it out. So what does a hiring manager really want from you on day one? We want professionalism, that’s number one. We want you to bond with your teammates, that’s number two. And we want you to start solving problems from day one. Now I won’t take the final word. You have the final word, Jason.

Jason Dion:
No, I mean, I completely agree with you. When it comes to this whole idea of failing forward and the culture of safety, where you feel comfortable to bring up these issues, that’s all goes right back into the lean principles and the scrum principles. So if you’re working in an organization that uses scrum as their project mythology, that is right in line with it. And so it’s just knowing what your organization is, and be able to have value and impact on day one.

When you show up for the job, we hired you for a reason, we need work done, we need you to help us. Come in there, make our lives easier, show us what you can do. And even if you’re putting more effort in the first week or two, than you will the rest of the time you’re there, that halo effect is going to help carry you over and really make that great first impression. So you want to come up to speed as quickly as you can and just make that great first impression because that’s going to go a long way for you.

Yeah. Any other words, Kip?

Kip Boyle:
Nope. Let’s wrap up.

Jason Dion:
All right. Well in that case, I want to thank everybody again for joining us for another episode of Your Cyber Path. We look forward to seeing you next time and until then you can always visit us at yourcyberpath.com for more tips, tricks, and great advice. See you then.

Kip Boyle:
Bye.